TRANSCRIPT
Casey J. Cornelius (00:04):
Hey everyone, and welcome to the latest episode of the ForCollegerForLife podcast. My name is Casey Cornelius. I am the host of this podcast. I am also the founder and president of ForCollegerForLife, and I get the pleasure of interviewing our team members, the folks who make us America’s leading college speaking agency. Over the last few weeks, as we’ve kicked off season two we’ve had the opportunity to interview many of the newest voices to our roster. And today is no exception. I’m gonna tell you a lot about our next guest, and there’s a lot to tell. Like, I’m gonna be honest at the beginning, there’s a lot to tell, but it’s because her background, her experience, her expertise is so impressive. So l let me go ahead and get started and then bring her to the mic. So, Dr. Sara Jahansouz Wray is the ultimate recovering perfectionist.
(00:58):
She has spent over half of her life on college campuses, which provides a keen insight and unique perspective on the challenges facing today’s college students. Her social media presence went viral when she transitioned from blogging about fashion to sharing her recovery journey from alcohol and prescription pills. Dr. Wray has shared her experience, strength, and hope with countless audiences seeking guidance on ways to cope with life that doesn’t involve a handful of pills or bottles of wine. Sara earned a bachelor’s degree in life sciences from Kansas State University and master’s degree in Higher Education administration from Indiana University, second master’s degree in Emergency and Crisis Management from the University of North Carolina at Pembroke, and a doctorate in learning and leadership from the University of Tennessee at Chattanooga. Yes, that’s a lot of degrees. Dr. Wray’s dissertation, female undergraduate student perceptions of their engagement and in experiential learning activity has been utilized as a leading resource in understanding undergraduate engagement in the Panhellenic sort recruitment process. Her research interests include emotional intelligence, recovery and college student persistence. Her proudest role in life is that of wife and mother, her husband Mike, and children. Rory Rose and Shepherd reside in Sugarland, Texas. Her family enjoys making memories through travel and time spent with friends. Ooh, that’s a lot. But it’s all great stuff and it allows me to invite to the mic Dr. Sarah Jahansouz Wray. Sara, did you all right with that introduction? Was that all? Was that okay?
Dr. Sara Jahansouz Wray (02:31):
Yeah, I am sitting here thinking, oh my gosh, this is my wild, crazy life. I’ve packed a lot in, in 40 years. It was, it was lovely. Thank you so much, Casey. I’m so excited to join you today. And so just so honored to join the ForCollegerForLife team as well. So looking forward to diving in with you.
Casey J. Cornelius (02:52):
I love it. I love it. I, I’m gonna take a moment of personal privilege because I’ve, I’ve never asked you this question. You’re the only other person I know other than myself who has two master’s degrees.
Dr. Sara Jahansouz Wray (03:05):
Nice. How
Casey J. Cornelius (03:06):
Did the second one come about? Emergency and crisis management.
Dr. Sara Jahansouz Wray (03:10):
Yeah, it’s really wild. So, I was working at the University of North Carolina at Pembroke. I was serving as a director of fraternity and sorority life, and right during that time, the Virginia Tech massacre had occurred, and so mm-hmm. There was so much dialogue going on about crisis response on college campuses, and a lot about mitigation as well. And so U N C P offered this m p a program with a track focused specifically on emergency and crisis management. And so I thought, man, maybe that’s something that could set me apart and make me more marketable in the higher ed space. And, you know, it’s wild because when I look at all of the academic work I’ve done, that is probably the degree that I use the most in my day-to-day life right now. And so definitely wasn’t part of the intended journey, but has been a really unique part of my just of my academic background.
Casey J. Cornelius (04:23):
That’s fascinating. No, so I, I remember, you know, for those of us who’ve, who’ve been around the higher ed space for a while now, I remember sort of the, the national response after Virginia Tech. And, and I actually I attended a conference once, and I’m, I’m sitting next to this person, we’re having a great conversation, and we were talking about the, the tragedy at Virginia Tech, and it, it turns out her name was Lucinda Roy, and she was the professor of the, the, the person who perpetrated that crime and wrote a book about it. And I was like, oh my goodness, I’ve been sitting here for half an hour, and I had no idea, not only that I’d had her book, but read her book and so forth. So I, I think that that’s actually really fascinating that you saw that as being a, a need in your professional tool belt to get better at
Dr. Sara Jahansouz Wray (05:12):
Yeah. Yeah. And you know what’s wild too, Casey, what a small world. So that same year that I started my work in that master’s program, I got to be a part of a team that brought Nikki Giovanni to campus
Casey J. Cornelius (05:27):
Oh, yes.
Dr. Sara Jahansouz Wray (05:29):
Speaker. And she happened to be the faculty member that had submitted writing samples from the perpetrator in that case to essentially student affairs saying, I’m really concerned about the content of, of this writing that the student’s submitting. And so it’s wild now because in my professional life, I do a lot of work with college intervention and a lot of work with crisis response on co on the college campus where I work. And it’s just wild that all of that really started to spur out of that one piece. And that both of you and I, both you and I had an opportunity to connect with two of the women Yeah. Who have really led this whole movement.
Casey J. Cornelius (06:21):
That’s fascinating. That’s fascinating. So, so listen, folks, you probably heard me also read that, that bio and, and, and said to yourself like, wow, and maybe, maybe we glossed over the first line, but I think the first line of the bio is actually the one I wanna spend the most time on if that’s okay with you. It says that you are the ultimate recovering perfectionist. Yeah. Those lines don’t, typically, those words don’t typically get used next to one another. So, so what does it mean to be a recovering perfectionist?
Dr. Sara Jahansouz Wray (06:51):
Oh, gosh. Well, you know I am so all in or all out on everything in my life, right? Like, I either want to do things to a hundred percent capacity or I don’t wanna do things at all. And, you know, I think back to even my childhood, and that’s really how I felt. I felt like if I couldn’t master something, or if I couldn’t do something perfectly, or if my achievements couldn’t be at these arbitrary, ridiculous level of expectation, then that was a failure. And so that has probably been the best gift in the be in, in the biggest curse in my life, just in so many different ways. And so what’s wild is, I think one of the symptoms of my perfectionism showed up right around the age of 27 or 28 where I got introduced to a number of prescription medications.
(07:58):
And you know, the way I’ve been able to recover from chemical dependence has actually really taught me coping skills and mechanisms to recover from that mindset of I have to do things at this crazy level, or I have to do things absolutely perfectly to be valid or to have worth. And it’s been fascinating because in my recovery journey from chemicals I’ve just learned so many skills that have helped me to completely change my expectations, not only for other people, but for myself. And that’s been the, just one of the greatest gifts of my recovery, you know? It’s taken me about almost two and a half years to really get to a place where I’m comfortable saying, you know, I’m a person that can, that, that makes mistakes. I make mistakes. And that doesn’t make me bad. It just makes me human. And before I had gotten into my recovery journey, I could eat myself alive with guilt and shame for doing just the simplest of mistakes. And so I think for other folks that really struggle with some of the curses of high achievement you can relate to the fact that granting yourself some grace is, is really just truly a beautiful gift.
Casey J. Cornelius (09:44):
I want to, I want to dive more deeply into that. For those of you who are just learning about SAR and her, her story and perspectives, I invite you to visit ForCollegerForLife.com/sara. That is spelled s a r a. Please don’t call her Sarah, it is Sara <laugh>. You, you said something there that, that is sort of fascinating to me, and that is, you, you developed the ability to not only give yourself grace, but also give grace to other people. So let me, let me start with the, the inward facing grace or forgiveness for making mistakes. Did you find before this development that it was particularly hard for yourself to, you know, to have permission to, to make mistakes?
Dr. Sara Jahansouz Wray (10:28):
Oh my gosh, yeah. I thought that, I thought that made me a failure. And I thought that you know, it made me dumb and inept and just stupid, you know, when I would make mistakes or not use the best judgment or if I disappointed someone mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And it’s wild, because, you know, if you read the bio, if you read my bio about anyone else on the planet and use someone else’s name, I would never think in a million years that someone with credentials or accolades or whatnot would feel that way. But that’s how I felt all the time. And so I saw this show up so often in my career as well, because I was able I was able to navigate a very high achieving successful career at a very, very young age. And, you know, it was very common for me at one point at one point of time in my career to be sitting in rooms where my peers were a good 30 years older than I was.
(11:45):
And you know, I lacked experience and I lacked maturation, but when I would make mistakes or, or not even a mistake, I only knew what I knew. And that’s fair, and that’s okay. I would just eat myself alive that and I would, I would play the tape right over and over in my head of, oh my God, I can’t believe I said this, or, oh my God, I can’t believe I made this decision even though I had very little information, or, or whatnot. So it’s, it’s wild that I think oftentimes those of us that show up in a public persona, that we’ve got it all together and we’ve got things figured out and we have confidence or presence that shows up in a very professional way, that on the inside we can actually be struggling so much and desperately looking for ways in which to cope without doing that internal work that, that which has been the key for me to really recovery.
Casey J. Cornelius (13:01):
You know, I, so, so much of what you just said resonates with, with me and my hunch is it’s resonating with a lot of listeners to, I’m, I’m curious, I just wanna dig a little bit more on this. Di did you find yourself in those situations where you felt like, maybe, I don’t wanna say like the least prepared person to be at those tables or in those rooms, but certainly in terms of experience and, you know, longevity and all that other kind of stuff, did you find yourself almost overcompensating for that to ensure that you wouldn’t make mistakes or that people wouldn’t see you as the under-prepared person at the table?
Dr. Sara Jahansouz Wray (13:39):
At times, yes. But also at times I would sit with incredible amounts of imposter syndrome. And so I think also a lot of assumptions are made about high achieving folks that they’ve come from households of privilege or they’ve come from family environments that are a nuclear family with healthy boundaries and healthy expectations or whatnot. And so, not only would I feel as if I didn’t belong at that table, I, I would also feel that from a social perspective, I also didn’t belong. Cuz for a lot of my career, you know, I wasn’t married, I didn’t have children. So even trying to connect about things happening in folks personal lives as well was really, really difficult for me. And so oftentimes rather than overcompensating I would almost withdraw a as a coping mechanism to try to protect myself. And you know, that’s probably just as dangerous as overcompensating as well. And so yeah, I mean, it, it was consistently a challenge and I think a lot of it boiled down to self-worth. Like, was I worthy enough to have an opinion? Was I worthy enough to be invited into these spaces? Did I deserve that? And you know, that’s something I’m really grateful for, I don’t sit with today.
Casey J. Cornelius (15:35):
Right. Yeah, no, and, and I think that you know, whether you’re a student listening to this episode or you’re a professional listening to this episode, some of that likely resonates with you because there is a tremendous amount of pressure to, to be the best that you can be to achieve all that you can achieve the, the 4.0 and, and all that other kind of stuff. Although I, I, I don’t know, sorry if this, this resonates with you, but I I always jokingly say that the, the student who has the 3 96 always has a story where, where the 4.0 is, you know, like, it’s impressive. It’s super impressive. But the 3 96 always has the, the story. I I what, so now we, we’ve talked about sort of the inward facing elements of, of perfectionism, but I’m, I’m curious as to how that manifests itself in terms of your relationships and expectations of other people as well.
Dr. Sara Jahansouz Wray (16:26):
Oh, it has been ridiculous, right? So prior to finding recovery, I, oh my gosh, my expectations of other people were for people to show up as I would, right? Like, I would have crazy expectations. I mean, I lo I’ve lost so many relationships along the way in my life because I wanted people to be perfect. You know, I wanted people to be me or to think the way I did and to be the way I wanted them to show up for me and, and whatnot. And, you know, one of the things I’ve learned over the last couple of years is that my expectations for other people are just future resentments for myself, you know, and future resentments towards them. And so it’s been interesting just living life with very few expectations for others because I’m very, very rarely disappointed any longer <laugh>.
(17:35):
And and, and I’ve granted that for myself as well. You know, recently I went through kind of like a promotion process in my nine to five work in higher ed, and I was an internal candidate. And, you know, in the higher ed space, you never know how a job search is gonna shake out especially when you’re internal and on top of it, I’d only been at my, with my employer for the last eight months, so I had no idea how it was going to shake out. And it was interesting because a lot of colleagues in the higher ed space would ask me so when are you gonna find out? What do you know? And I would just tell them, I don’t know anything. I’ve not inquired anything beyond doing my best I could in the interview, because what’s supposed to happen will happen.
(18:28):
And at the end of the day, I still have a great job. And you know, if it works out great, if it doesn’t work out great, maybe that’s just not part of my journey and not part of the plan. And so, you know fortunately it worked out and that’s awesome and it’s great for me and it’s great for my family. I also think it’s great for my employer, but I didn’t have to experience stress and anxiety through a job search process by managing my expectations of the fact all I could do was my best. And beyond that, I don’t have any control, right? Like, I can’t control other people, I can’t control places, I can’t control things. All I really have control over is how I choose to show up and how I choose to react to things. So that freedom for someone who has struggled with crippling anxiety so much of my life has been incredible.
(19:31):
I just, I never imagined that I would be able to manage stress and anxiety without a prescription bottle in a million years. I just, I, I didn’t realize that I’d be able to develop that type of coping skill. And I love working with other people to help them develop that too. Because so often when I talk about this, folks share with me, you know, all of their, especially college students, all of their stress and anxiety and, and their fear, right, of the unknown or the fear of things they can’t control. And so it’s just such an honor to work with folks and to really help teach them some of the skills that I use in my daily life. Really just grounded in emotional intelligence that have helped me find solutions to some of the, some of the issues that have really, really affected me for so, so much of my so much of my lifetime. And so yeah, you know, I just radically changed what I expect from other people, places and things, and really try to focus on what I can control, which is me.
Casey J. Cornelius (20:55):
I suspect that a lot of people listening to this probably are hearing from you the, the same thing I am, which is a, you know, a sense of use the word freedom. But I would imagine that there’s peace that comes along with that too, that says, listen, here’s what I can’t control and, and here’s what I can’t. And I imagine, you know, if, if you’re the person listening to this program who does this programming for your campus or organization, you’re probably imagining a group of students right now who who probably would respond quite well to, to Dr. Wray’s message there. Again, I, I encourage you to visit ForCollegerForLife.com/sara. Sara, we’re, we’re gonna talk about sort of the, the second layer to this, and probably in some ways the, the deeper and and, and, and probably tougher one to talk about, you know, you, you’re pretty open about your recovery experience. Can you talk a little bit about what that journey’s been like for you?
Dr. Sara Jahansouz Wray (21:48):
Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Well, first and foremost, Casey, what I always share with people is this, while I was struggling in active addiction, had I known one person that I admired that was educated, that was hadn’t hit wasn’t living under a bridge and had found a solution to chemical dependence, I always wonder if I would’ve had to struggle for a decade because, you know, drugs and alcohol are such a taboo subject. I mean, I think that whether you are struggling, you’ve got a friend that’s struggling, you’ve got family that are struggling. The one taboo thing that’s like, Ooh, I don’t know how to do this, is to like confront or talk with someone about substance abuse or substance misuse, whatever you wanna call it, right? Because there’s just such a stigma with it. So when I found recovery and I found a way to live sober and clean from controlled substances, I just knew that I, I was gonna share this journey to try to help other folks who were struggling in silence because I just, I rec I just refused to recover in the shadows.
(23:16):
Like, that’s just, that’s just me. And I will also tell you, I feel really privileged that I’m able to, to talk about my journey. I think a lot of folks based on their career, based on fear or based on their journey, that might not be right for them. And so it’s an incredible privilege for me to share my journey and share my experience, strength and hope with just the hope that maybe one other person doesn’t have to struggle silently. And know that, you know, they’re not alone. Cuz that’s the thing. When I was in active addiction, I thought I was the only woman in, on the planet that needed copious amounts of pills to survive or needed that entire bottle of wine at the end of the night to make it into the next day. And so that’s part of why I just am so willing to talk about this.
(24:15):
But yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s been a heck of a struggle. It’s been a heck of a journey. It took me hitting my version of rock bottom before I finally had the realization that I was willing to go to any length to stop living the way that I had been living. And, you know, I joke, I joked with a friend the other day, but I was, but it’s joking, but it’s also serious that I had finally hit a place where if I was told I needed to push a peanut up a hill with my nose for the rest of my life to never wake up after an overdose in a hospital again, then right now while talking to you, I’d be pushing that peanut up the hill with my nose because I was willing to go to any length to do this. And so it’s been a heck of a journey coming to the realization that the pills and the alcohol were just a symptom of the problem, and that it was me and my unwillingness to do inner work based on trauma and mental health concerns and whatnot, that I had never invested in doing that work before that that for me had to be the solution.
(25:43):
And so I don’t think there’s a one size fits all solution to recovery. I also think anyone that tells you there, there is, you should run from that <laugh>, right?
Casey J. Cornelius (25:52):
Right. Yeah.
Dr. Sara Jahansouz Wray (25:55):
But for me, I work with an addiction psychiatrist. I work with a therapist, and I rely on a 12 step program. And through that, I’ve, I just checked today actually I’m at 798 days, which for me, that’s like 798 miracles because in the last year of my active addiction, I, I couldn’t have fathomed that I could have, that I could have even put a few days together. So that’s been that’s been a little bit about the journey, but I’m happy to answer any questions that you might have about that.
Casey J. Cornelius (26:34):
Well, fir first of all, before any questions, I wanna say congratulations. Because 7 98 is, is is not something to sneeze at, and certainly not something to sneeze at when, when you frame it in terms of 750 or 798 miracles. That’s, that’s, that’s fantastic. And I’m, I’m glad that you’re here to, to tell your story. I, I, I do wanna unpack one of the things that you mentioned in that, you know, I, I think I’ve heard you say this in, in so many words, and I’m paraphrasing to a certain extent, but that if you are able to be the, the, the head fake, the person that someone says, I never knew that someone who dealt with addiction issues could look like you, someone who’s successful and has all their stuff together. Do you feel like that that’s like the head fake that’s necessary to get through? Because a lot of times, I think, I know you’re referencing this as well, most of the times when we talk about alcohol, drug use, recovery, et cetera, we always frame it as this catastrophic case that, that that audience members can’t really see themselves in. And, and maybe there’s a disconnect there, whereas you look like someone that an audience member would be aspiring to be. And, and, and that’s an ability to, to get the message across. Do you sense that as well?
Dr. Sara Jahansouz Wray (27:54):
Oh my gosh, yeah, absolutely. Like I don’t I don’t look like the people you see on intervention, right? <Laugh> on a and e, right? Right. And I don’t have that same life experience. But when I tell you that I was dying on the inside and this was the one thing in my life I could not figure out, like this was the one thing that willpower on its own couldn’t resolve the problem you know, that’s, that’s hard, especially for someone who’s used willpower and strength to get through a lot of really difficult things through my lifetime to, to finally have the humility to ask for help was something that I, I didn’t, it took me a decade to develop. And I think what was hard for me too is that I didn’t have a drug dealer, right? Like, I didn’t I wasn’t lacking the ability to parent my children.
(29:07):
I hadn’t lost things. Like I hadn’t lost a home. I hadn’t lost a marriage. I hadn’t lost money in my bank account be because of all that. It was so difficult for me to say I was powerless to this and that I needed help. I think what was tricky too is that, you know, I, I mentioned I didn’t have a drug dealer, right? But I also had a psychiatrist who just, you know, kept my American Express on file and just filled pills like you wouldn’t believe. And so that made it really easy for me to justify that everything was fine and everything was okay when it totally, it just totally wasn’t. And so I think that’s the thing about sobriety or about recovery in general, is like, it doesn’t have to get as bad for you as it did for me.
(30:18):
And I think that’s what’s cool too, and especially with college students right now that are doing so much like clean living and just making really, like health conscious choices that I certainly wasn’t making as a college student is like, you can choose a different way for substances to either be a part of your life or not be a part of your life. And it doesn’t have to get to the point that, that it did for me where I almost lost my life. And so, yeah, I mean, that’s, that’s definitely been part of why it’s been, why it, I think it took me so long to get to this, because when you’re picking up bottles of controlled substances from Walgreens and you’ve got, you know, a $25 copay, it’s really hard to put the pieces together of this is completely out of control. Like normal healthy women with doctorates and two small children shouldn’t be taking 80 pills a day, you know? But, but it took me a long while to be able to put those pieces together for myself because I couldn’t imagine a life without it.
Casey J. Cornelius (31:38):
I can imagine, Sara, that, that folks who are listening to this might be of this mindset or might know someone who’s of this mindset, you’d reference that this isn’t, this isn’t a problem, or this isn’t yet a problem. What, like, first step strategy or bit of advice would you offer to someone listening who’s, who thinks to themselves, this isn’t a problem yet for, for me or for my friend, but it may be becoming a problem. What would you suggest to them?
Dr. Sara Jahansouz Wray (32:07):
Okay, first off, this isn’t just a, this isn’t a suggestion. This is just a statement. You are not alone. And I would just say that to the person over and over again. You’re not alone. You’re not alone. You are not alone. Because that, for me, I was so isolated and scared to talk to anyone about this, I just felt so alone. So that’s the biggest piece of, of all of this is I would say, you’re not alone. I think again the, the second piece is that it’s, it’s, it’s gonna be okay also and to really grant yourself some grace, because one of the biggest things I did not understand was that addiction’s a disease. Like, it’s, it wasn’t a choice. I thought I was choosing this life every single day, and that’s why I hated myself so much, because in my head, I, I was choosing this and I couldn’t figure out a way not to.
(33:19):
And so, like, grant yourself some grace that so much of this is genetic. Like I can tell you already, based on addiction history for my family for my husband’s family, like my children genetically are probably different than folks that haven’t been touched with the disease of addiction. So the way that I’ll educate them about substance use and substance abuse will just be different than the way I was educated about it. And so the biggest, like, the biggest suggestion I have is to realize you’re not alone and to find someone that you trust or that you have faith in that is in recovery, and talk with them about their journey. Because one of the biggest things for me is one of the biggest pieces of medicine I use in my recovery. It’s not a chemical, but it’s talking to other, it’s talking to other folks in recovery because my secrets are what kept me sick for 10 years.
(34:29):
It, the, my secrets kept me so sick. And so part of my medicine to not be sick in the disease of addiction is to talk about those secrets. So even now, you know, I said like, I’ve got almost 800 days, but I can tell you I’ve been having some really stressful times at work right now, and I’ve had a couple using dreams. Like I’ve had a couple dreams lately where I was taking taking a bunch of pills and that’s scary. And so the way I cope with that now is I talk to someone about it instead of like sitting in silence with those secrets. And that’s helped me tremendously. And so you know, that’s, that’s one of my biggest suggestions.
Casey J. Cornelius (35:18):
Sorry, I, on, on behalf of people listening thank you one for, for that message, but also for sharing your truth and your vulnerability, and for, again, for, for being here to deliver that message. Folks, if, if you wanna learn more for college life.com/sarah, you can also find Sara on Instagram l kind of an interesting follow. If you’re not already Dr. D r dot Wray w r a y, please make sure that you connect with Sara there as well. Sara, we’re gonna get you outta here on some rapid fire questions. Five of them. You ready for those?
Dr. Sara Jahansouz Wray (35:58):
Yeah, let’s do it.
Casey J. Cornelius (35:59):
Okay. So this is what I’m sure is like <laugh> kind of hard to imagine, but let’s pretend for just a second. Let’s pretend that you have an entire day to binge watch anything. What do you choose?
Dr. Sara Jahansouz Wray (36:11):
Hands down, without a doubt. Succession starting at season one and working through to this finale season of season five.
Casey J. Cornelius (36:20):
Yeah, so, so we share a <laugh>, we share a love for succession. I was a late comer to it. I, I actually, I think it was during season three where someone was, was talking my ear off about, at the time me how much I, i I would enjoy succession. And I finally gave myself the chance to sit down and binge it, and I was hooked.
Dr. Sara Jahansouz Wray (36:39):
Oh, it’s so good. It’s just, to me, it is the best series on television right now. I am so sad it’s coming to a, to a close. But it is such a treat. I love it.
Casey J. Cornelius (36:52):
Excellent. Everyone, make sure you check out succession and and let’s talk about it once you do. Cause it’s a, it’s, it’s a good one. Sarah, what is the most used app on your phone?
Dr. Sara Jahansouz Wray (37:03):
Oh my gosh. Probably my text messages, if that’s considered an app. And then probably Instagram. Yeah.
Casey J. Cornelius (37:12):
Okay. Okay. We get a lot of Instagram once, but, but I think the texts should be considered. I mean, it’s, it’s an app. I know it’s preloaded, but it’s an app on the phone. Right. Okay. Sarah, who would you most like to have dinner with?
Dr. Sara Jahansouz Wray (37:26):
Oh, is this like dead or alive?
Casey J. Cornelius (37:28):
You can take it whichever direction do you prefer?
Dr. Sara Jahansouz Wray (37:31):
Oh my gosh. Okay. Well, I would have to say if I could have dinner with anyone on the planet dead or alive, I would go with Herman b. Wells, who was chancellor of Indiana University. I have loved and admired his career. I’ve read so many biographies about him, and I left a little piece of my heart in Bloomington, Indiana. So I’d definitely say HB Wells is who I’d love to have dinner with.
Casey J. Cornelius (38:02):
You know, I’ve never met anyone who did not who attended Indiana, who did not have that sort of connection. There’s, there’s always this forever connection there in Bloomington.
Dr. Sara Jahansouz Wray (38:15):
Absolutely.
Casey J. Cornelius (38:16):
Fantastic. Excellent. Sar, what do you do to wind down? So at the end of the day, when, when all the texts have been answered and, and kids are in bed, what, what’s your routine? What do you do to wind down and say, that’s the end of the day?
Dr. Sara Jahansouz Wray (38:28):
It is the exact same thing every single night. I am a complete and total Kindle junkie. I am always reading a memoir. Nothing. I, non-fiction is the only thing I read. I I don’t care for fiction at all. And every single night before bed, I am on my Kindle reading as much as I can before falling to sleep.
Casey J. Cornelius (38:54):
I think many listeners can can relate with that one too, as, as the eyes are, are falling shut at the end of the night. Good thing that Kendall is not very heavy and and, and can fall, <laugh> fall off without damaging. Again, folks, if you’re, if you’re just learning about Dr. Ray, please make sure you visit for college for life.com/sarah s a r a. And then the last question to get you outta here, Sarah, how can listeners best connect with you?
Dr. Sara Jahansouz Wray (39:18):
Oh my gosh. So the best way to connect with me is through email which is sarah hanus gmail.com. Also Instagram is a great way to connect. I’m at Dr dot Ray, w r a y on Instagram. And again, I know a lot of what I talk about can seem very, very personal also, so willing to connect with folks one-on-one. If you, if any of my journey or anything I shared today resonates with you and would love to connect
Casey J. Cornelius (39:56):
Sarah th this was, this was a lot of fun, really enlightening. I know that I know that our listeners are going to enjoy it as well. Folks, if you’ve enjoyed this episode or the ForCollegerForLife podcast overall, just invite you to do the things that you’re supposed to do with podcasts. So please make sure that you like and share and subscribe and review, but also, if you’d be so kind, please let us know the content that you would like most to hear covered in these episodes as well, whether it’s a specific one of our speakers, whether it’s a follow up on a specific topic, we want to deliver to you exactly what you want. So from the bottom of our hearts, thank you so much for listening, and until next time, everybody be well and we will talk soon.
