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ForCollegeForLife Podcast Ep. 18: Two Common Mistakes in Leadership

TRANSCRIPT

Casey J. Cornelius (00:06):

Hey everyone. And welcome to the latest episode of the ForCollegeForLife podcast. My name is Casey Cornelius, and I am the founder and president of ForCollegeForLife. And we’re switching things up a little bit today since we launched our podcast several months ago, the focus has been on getting to know more about the speakers and consultants who comprise our team. But today we’re introducing a new content element to this podcast. For the last year we’ve been hosting free live webinars called can we talk about this? And our thought was, and based on some of the feedback of our most trusted listeners, that maybe we could dive more deeply into some content areas based on the expertise of our speakers and give them the opportunity to collaborate about the things that are on their mind. So today is the first of migrating. Can we talk about this from the webinar to the podcast?

Casey J. Cornelius (01:12):

I hope you enjoy it. And I hope if you do, you give us the things that you’re supposed to do on podcasts, like, and share and subscribe and comment and all that other kind of good stuff today, I’m fortunate enough to be joined by Dan fail and Dar Mayweather and Dar, and Dan both come to the topic of leadership from slightly different perspectives, but both of them are particularly interested in ways in which we can better equip student leaders this year on topics that maybe get overlooked from time to time. I’m not gonna spend too much more time telling you about what they’re going to say. I’m gonna invite them to the mic to talk about it themselves. So can we talk about this Dar it’s on you.

Dar Mayweather (01:59):

Thank you, Casey. And thank you, Dan, and all, everybody that is listening today. If I can just take you on a journey back to 19 year old, Dar Mayweather becoming an RA, going to RA training, which we know is a super exciting experience. I’m having a amazing opportunity. We’re laughing, we’re joking. I ended up taking a break from an activity to go to the bathroom, ended up jumping over this wall and my director ended up seeing me. And so as I come back to the activities, he stops me and says, Hey, Dar, I noticed that you had some trouble jumping over that wall. I said, yeah, I jump over that wall pretty gay. And then we looked each other in your eyes and I can tell that I said something wrong, but where I’m from, people say stuff like that all the time. And since he was black, I thought that he would understand that I was just joking.

Dar Mayweather (02:58):

But what he really did for me changed my life forever. See, this is my director. He could fire me, but instead he said, you’ll learn more about that in training. And when we got the training, I did learn about microaggressions. I learned about pronouns. I learned how to be better as a leader. And I went back to him and I apologized and he said, you know, I know you will be a great leader in this word, Dar you see, sometimes we never know how we could impact somebody’s life. If we just give them the opportunity to learn and be better. And that moment was the catalyst of my inclusive leadership journey. Now I’ve been able to work with students all across the country on this work because of somebody seeing me as someone who could learn and have the capacity to be better as a leader on campus. So, Dan, what do you think about, you know, when we are talking about helping people see themselves be better, what do you think?

Dan Faill (04:11):

So what’s funny is that what came up for me and also welcome everyone. Thanks so much for being here and, and, and thank you, Dar and Casey. What came up for me was this flashback to recruitment. So here I am 17 year old, Dan fail, stepping foot on campus for the first time and the campus that I went to, you could join in the fall. And, you know, I was in high school. I would consider myself at least a decently sized fish in a small pond, and then coming to a very large state school and not, not even being a minnow in that <laugh> in that ocean of people. And so I was like, oh wow, I really wanna fit in and, and meet people. So, you know, where should I do that? And be social. I I’ll join a fraternity.

Dan Faill (04:53):

And so I go around and I, I remember going and looking at everyone. And so this recruitment journey about like how you recruit people in leadership just comes to forefront for me, because I went to the most popular group that had the most social capital. And you know, I’m asking all the questions like, Hey, when you know, like, how can I be a leader in this group? What do you do on campus? And I was told all the right things, the brochure was sexy, right? Like it was nice. There’s all the nice little awards on the table. There’s everything. So I end up talking to a couple of the seniors and they’re like, oh yeah, you know, like we, you know, we pace ourselves on involvement. So, you know, gotta be, wait to be, you know, president when you’re a senior, but you know, you put in the work and we get you on committees, da, da, da, all the right things.

Dan Faill (05:33):

I joined first new member meeting, first pledge meeting we’re there. And so they bring out all of the intermural trophies. Now, when I say all, I mean like freaking every intermural trophy that you could possibly imagine from every sport, bad mitten who knows, right. Like all of it. And so they put ’em all on the table night. This is what we stand for. We are about the best and the excellence, da, da, da. So go around, introduce yourself, say your name, say your you know, like what position you played and what sport you played in high school. Now, for those that can’t see me, I might look like I could play sports. I’m six foot one. I’m a bigger guy, but I didn’t play. I was in theater for all how of high school. So it gets around to me, there’s 18 of us.

Dan Faill (06:12):

It gets around to me. I am 17 years old. I am the 17th person to go. And in my amazing sense of humor, I say, well, Hey, you know, my name’s Dan, I didn’t really play a sport in high school, but I was in theater so I can act like I play sports. And that’s about how well it went over like crickets. And I was like, okay, cool. And I already felt out of place. So here I was, you know, being told that there’s these leaders and they get along and everyone understands each other and supports each other. But then within the first hour of my very first meeting, I feel completely out of place. Fast forward a little bit, two more weeks. I end up telling the, the chapter president, this isn’t for me like that I’m I joined the wrong group. I just don’t feel like I fit in which at that young is, is really, you know, I’m kind of impressed with myself that I did it rather than just going with the flow and staying in the popular group.

Dan Faill (07:03):

But then a few weeks later, my roommate comes back. My freshman year roommate comes back and he is awkward. Afaf like, I’m just like super awkward. And he’s like, Hey man, we’re gonna start a fraternity. I was like, no, man, I’m good. I’m really good. I don’t want it. He goes, no, no, no, no. And then he starts rattling off other people that joined. And I was like, oh, well this is an eclectic group. And quite frankly, if they’re giving you a bit, I gotta see what this is about. And we get there and their entire pitch was, we want to try to do this the right way we want to, we don’t want to fit in. We wanna stand out. And so how do we do that? Will we accept people from all walks of life? And we’re looking for freshman, sophomore, junior seniors.

Dan Faill (07:41):

And so that concept of what you’re looking for in leadership was so incredibly palpable. And that’s how I was recruited and stayed in. Now, another story, another, you know, time for another story is eight years later we closed because we just became like everyone else because we weren’t trying to stand out anymore. We were trying to fit in. And I think that that’s important as we think about not only leadership as an individual, but leadership as a group, because that can be, that can make or break a lot of people’s experience. Is, are you telling people what you’re actually doing or are you showing them where your values are by what you’re doing? And then how are you going to continue to grow and invest in not only your people, but in the direction of your organization?

Casey J. Cornelius (08:30):

You know, I think the thing that occurs to me in both of your stories, and I’m gonna ask both of you to reflect on them in different ways is that you are having some learning. You are having some, some realizations in real time. So Dan, I wanna start with you. I, I know that you talk a lot about failure and you talk about imposter syndrome, but what you’re actually referencing is experiencing those things and changing your behavior in the moment. Right. So what advice would you give to, to students, to student leaders who are struggling with those things, maybe a fear of failure or that sense of imposter syndrome, but don’t know how to change their behavior. Now,

Dan Faill (09:13):

I love that. I absolutely love that. I have always, I think prided myself on the fact that I’ve got a good gut and not just because my six pack is well hidden and insulated is I’ve, I’ve considered myself like I’ve got good instincts. I know when something feels off and, and maybe it’s just, you know, this, this weird boundary of confidence versus ego versus whatever, but I tend to voice it. And so I would say to, to those who are in the moment and thinking to yourself, Hmm, something’s just not clicking. Something’s not right. Take like, listen to your body in that moment, listen to your mind. And then really kind of ask itself, ask yourself some additional questions of, well, why does it feel that way? Well, why does it feel that way? And so I, I love the whole journey of five whys.

Dan Faill (10:03):

So rather than starting with why just keep asking yourself, why, why do I want this experience to fit in? Why do I want this? Why do I want that? And it just really helps articulate your own thoughts. I will say what I’ve learned almost, not necessarily too late in life, but way too late to make advantage of it while I was a college student therapy. So if you can go to this counseling center and be able to talk through some of those emotions and feelings in a, in a place where you feel safe and, and supported, that’s gonna, that’s really just gonna help you continue to grow and develop as a human being. But really that’s also gonna help you stand in your truth and stand in what you are looking for and be able to say to others, to your peers, to people who are older, you than you, whatever, this is my path, this is my truth. This is where I want to lead and or go. So hopefully that was kind helpful.

Casey J. Cornelius (10:54):

It was for sure. And, and Dar I think your story references some of that in the moment learning that happens as well. You know, fortunately you had someone who was patient with you tolerant of I don’t, I, I think you’ve heard use the word ignorance before. And so I’m, I’m tolerant of, of maybe some, some some cultural ignorance there. What advice would you give to people who are coming to conversations of diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging from a less than perfect standpoint?

Dar Mayweather (11:28):

Yeah, I appreciate that question because it really gets me thinking about how I was showing up in those spaces. The old saying is diversity is being invited to the party, but inclusion is being asked to dance. And I was thankful to have a leader that was asking me to do the dance of inclusion, was asking me to take a deeper dive into my privilege, which means that he had already done some privilege work. He had already seen some students who might have had that same type of attitude showing up in those type of behaviors in that space. He, he showed me what it meant to be a healed educator. And for students, we need to be able to think about this from a perspective of having mentors or having people in our lives who can help us understand the long list of ailments that come with exclusion, kind of think of it like healthcare for a person who’s reasonably healthy and you go into the doctor’s office, you might not fully understand all the different diagnosis that they have you filling out on the questionnaire.

Dar Mayweather (12:48):

You probably never even experienced it, but for a person who is not as healthy, they might have some better understanding of all the different ailments that doctors see people with. And so I relate that kind of to inclusion and saying, when we’re walking in privilege, we don’t oftentimes have a true understanding of all the different marginalized, oppressed experiences that people might have might be walking with. It’s so interesting that you ask that question because learning more about, you know, my, my old director, I learned that he was also gay and so not only am, was I oppressing a group. I was also ignorant to who he was. It’s the idea that social identity is like the iceberg I was walking in thinking that all diversity is, is what you see. Oftentimes we need to have abilities to see what’s under the surface. And that’s what I’m trying to help encourage students to do is don’t just see the iceberg for what you see, be cognizant that there is so much more under it. And so I would love to kick it down to Dan to talk about, you know, how do we help people understand that better?

Dan Faill (14:12):

I, and Dar what I love, what you just said about the iceberg. I literally, when I teach some of the recruitment skills, it’s all around iceberg moments, right? Like how do we create iceberg moments? And Dar that’s actually kind of how you and I connected the fact that you do a lot of leadership work at my Alma mater. I saw that post in a Facebook group and I was like, what the, okay. And so then, you know, like I reached out to you and then come to find out, like we’ve got so many different pieces in common, but you know, to the point of understanding yourself, I think we often don’t take enough time, you know? And, and, and I’m, let’s just call it, I’m a little bit more chronologically enhanced than most college students currently. However, I think we still are on the journey of finding out who we are, what we stand for and what we want to believe in much less who we even are specifically, what are my own interests?

Dan Faill (15:01):

What are my values? What do I want to get in into? Because you know, going to college as a traditional college age student, you might not know a lot of those answers. I mean, my dad’s was a vet and went through college at a later point and still was trying to figure out what he wanted and, and everything. So finding out and listening to what will almost like a, does this bring me joy? Do I like doing this? Is this problematic. And, and being able to, to listen to those voices and critics, the problem is, and this is the point I wanted to make when you understand yourself. And when you’re asking yourself a lot of these questions, sometimes most times that little voice of disbelief or that little voice that just kind of says, well, I don’t know why you’re running for this position.

Dan Faill (15:49):

No one’s gonna follow you. Or that little voice that says, this is cute, that you wanna stand out, but really you’re just gonna fit in, or you’re not really qualified or what like, or, or, or, or, and that little negative disbelief comes in. And that’s kind of what Casey alluded to earlier, which was this concept of imposter syndrome. It’s, it’s difficult to do the work, to understand yourself where it’s helpful is to find that group of people. And it doesn’t have to be the organization that you’re a part of, but it is, it does need to be a group of people that, you know, and trust and have created a safe environment with that. Both challenge you to be better, but champion you on those moments because that pride, that sense of self-efficacy of growth and the ability to, to do a good job can be built up by others.

Dan Faill (16:34):

But then also we need to, you know, go to bed knowing that we did a good job. And so that little voice of imposter syndrome can sometimes creep in and the issues are when we listen to it, the issues are when we start to believe that little voice that says you’re not good enough. Or if you’ve not explored your own identities enough to be like, well, do I really fit in with this? Because I don’t look like, or feel like, or have it those same experiences as X, Y, Z. So I think it’s, it’s fascinating that so Dar I wanna thank you for bringing up the iceberg moments, cuz it just kicked off this whole tangential thought in my own brain. What do you think?

Dar Mayweather (17:10):

Yeah, I agree. Oh my gosh. Talking about self-efficacy in giving students the belief that they could actually make a difference in these in folks lives, as it relates to being better leaders, being inclusive leaders, there is that self discovery that self-awareness piece, but also when we’re talking and also when we’re talking about working with groups, we need to also having the idea of what we see diversity and inclusion actually is you talk about building that confidence and, you know, in leadership work, they talk about two ways to build confidence is by knowing what is expected of you in practice. And so how are we helping students know what is expected of them as it relates to diversity, as it relates to inclusion as separate concepts? I, when I do this work with students all the time, you know, folks can reasonably come up with a fairly consistent definition of diversity.

Dar Mayweather (18:15):

But when I ask them to divine the, to define inclusion, that’s what we kind of get all over the place. And oftentimes we’re having leaders be responsible for these two concepts without having a working definition, but what that actually looks like. And so what we know is diversity is really important when we’re talking about who we’re letting in, but when we’re talking about inclusion, we need to know that giving people voice when we let them in is also just as important. And so I think you know, throwing it back to Casey, I will love to hear just some questions that you might have as it relates to what we’re talking about.

Casey J. Cornelius (19:02):

For sure. Yeah. You know, one of the things that, that I get to do as, as the host of this is try to put myself in the mind of a student leader who’s listening or an advisor or campus based professional who’s, who’s sharing this information with their students. The first thing I need to do of course is, is remind folks that you can learn more about Dar or Dan’s programs by visiting for college, for life.com for college, for life.com/dar D a R or Dan D a N. Neither of those is slash D a D. Although both of them are proud fathers for college, for life.com/dan or Dar. I, I guess if I were in the seat of a student leader or someone who’s working directly with student leaders this year and thinking about the topics of failure or imposter syndrome or diversity and inclusion, and, and this is kind of a free for all, whoever wants to jump in first, what would you say is one of the most common mistakes that student leaders make related to your areas of expertise? Like what what’s, what’s the thing that catches more student leaders than anything else?

Dan Faill (20:12):

Dar I’ll kick it over to you, man. I’m curious to know on that, that individual level, which you got, cause I got some thoughts on leaders in the organization sense, but I would love to hear from you.

Dar Mayweather (20:21):

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I, I think it’s one, like I said before, it’s really important to take time to actually define these terms and what that means for your presidency or for your executive board or for the program that you’re trying to actually be more diverse and inclusive within. I think it’s also we have, we have a, a, we do a good job of saying we want more people who are different. What we don’t do a good job at is saying, how do these different experiences inform our conversations, inform our ability to get to know each other. It’s really a hard thing for students because we oftentimes say, Hey, like being diverse is being inclusive. And we use that interchangeably on campuses and that’s then gets really hard when the, the incident happens. And somebody’s now trying to be retroactive in fixing the problems that’s happening.

Dar Mayweather (21:31):

Oftentimes we have students who don’t have a real understanding of the history of exclusion in general context, in the world and society and how that plays a role in how we show up on campuses. Many times we’re bringing bias to these organizations and we don’t have mechanisms. We don’t have trainings. We don’t have conversations that allow for us to open these doors. I think it’s also really important to make sure that we don’t force people to conform to what the group is Ty to trying or what the group has done, especially when we’re trying to meet more diverse and inclusive, kind of similar to what Dan was talking about with his fraternity. They tried to set out to be different. And then at some point they became just like everybody else. I think we need to hold true to those values, but those values really need to have some kind of concrete living, breathing document or actionable space within our work, whether that’s annual bi-annual I mean bimonthly or monthly trainings, conversations, webinars, just inviting yourself in the spaces where development is happening. You know, I think that is two really big things that I see happen with students. What about you Dan,

Casey J. Cornelius (22:53):

Be before I be Dan, before that, I just wanna, I wanna quick follow up on that. Dar are, are you saying that if I’m a student leader, one of the first steps that I should take in order to help avoid these mistakes is bring people together to at least develop a common understanding of what we mean by inclusion or what we mean by efforts at diversity. Is, is that what I’m hearing you say?

Dar Mayweather (23:17):

Absolutely. Casey we are in a space where information is everywhere. So there’s no excuse as to why we should be trying to make this up. There’s no excuse as to why we should think why we are saying that this might not matter. There’s not many excuses as to why we aren’t having comfortable, safe for psychological and physical, safe conversations about how inclusion should work within our work, whether that’s a student or professional. I oftentimes see leadership as, you know, a group of people coming together to achieve a common goal. That’s diversity and inclusion are usually a part of these organizations, you know bylaws constitutions yet. How much time do we sit down and actually have the conversation about what did that look like last year? What should that look like this year? What will that look like next year?

Casey J. Cornelius (24:28):

Mm.

Dar Mayweather (24:28):

I believe those are really valid questions that need to be answered by not just students, but advisors as well.

Casey J. Cornelius (24:36):

I think what I hear you say is don’t skip the step. Let’s not assume that everybody’s on the same page. Let’s, let’s take the time to ensure that, that we all do have a common understanding and that we’re, we’re pointed in the same direction. Dan, what, what about that most common mistake question as it relates to, to failure or you know, the, the need for perfectionism among student leaders? What, what’s your take on that?

Dan Faill (25:01):

Well, and to the quick point that you just made, sometimes we’re not even, you know, much less the same page. We’re not even in the same chapter or hopefully not even. I mean, like we might not even be in the same book. And so knowing that you’ve gotta be able to set and reset and frame it and reframe like, Hey, this is where we’re at. This is where we’re going and do that so often. Which kind of ties into a little bit of my point is that we get comfortable. And I think it’s very easy to get comfortable. It’s very easy to not want to push the norm or to, to step outside of what’s, you know, expected, so to speak. And we, you know, Beyonce said it great in terms of like, it’s just effortless perfection, but you know what, ain’t nobody woke up like this.

Dan Faill (25:46):

And so knowing that we have the potential and capacity to do more than we give ourselves credit for a B, knowing that we can we can really utilize other leaders in a sense that we don’t at all. And so that was an another point that I wanted to make around leaders, not being as vulnerable as we should. Yes. We were elected into these roles or put them in them, slated in them. We interviewed for them and got them, you know, yes, we have been put in them, but there are other people who may have similar struggles. There are other people who, you know, may have had great successes, but don’t feel like they can share them because they might feel ostracized by their group to be like, don’t give away our good answers and our, the way that we did this, but why not help every group in your community?

Dan Faill (26:36):

What, like, what’s the harm in that? And so I think that that’s where we, we’re not vulnerable with, you know, to share that we’re struggling. We’re not vulnerable to say that like I feel alone or that my organization has problems collecting dues or that you know, here’s the blind spots that we have, who else has experienced this. We’ve not done a great enough job as leaders to showcase that vulnerability is probably one of the best strengths to have as human beings. But we’ve just kind of said, get your ish together, right? Like it’s okay to be busy, just keep cranking, just keep the hustle. But if your hustle’s doing nothing, and if you’re taking on all of the burden, are you really even going anywhere? And so the, then the last one and I alluded to this was we need to be more brave and willing to fail.

Dan Faill (27:26):

And that’s just not, cuz it’s a shameless plug for my last name, although it is <laugh> we need to be more open to trying new things. We need to be willing to put ourselves out there. And that’s an exercise in vulnerability in and of itself. But being able to say, Hey, you know what? This, these events don’t work anymore. Let’s just scrap ’em and see what else we could come up with. Hey, you know what the way that we run our meetings is really just announcements. That could have been an email, but no, one’s gonna read the email or listen to the announcements. So like maybe we should just mix this up a little bit more well, but we’ve always done it this way really? Cuz maybe not <laugh> and like how can we continue to engage? But then also, you know, the last few years in the, in the pandemic has taught us that we’ve had to, to, I I’m gonna say the pivot word.

Dan Faill (28:11):

I said pivot. But we’ve had to figure out new ways to function. And I think moving forward as we continue to engage and reengage with each other, we need to be more apt to say, what used to work for us four years ago does not work for us today. How can we shift it and move forward? And maybe that’s just gonna be a trial and error and that’s okay to try something, know that it doesn’t work, fail miserably, fail openly and share those failures. Because at that point then others can help learn to be like, oh wow, they tried something, wait, we could try something. And it just continues to ignite the flame, ignite the spark that you know, like helps other people try new things. Dara, I want you to chime in on

Dar Mayweather (28:57):

That too. Can I, if I can please, oh my God, please. You are really opening the door to vulnerability and the power that it has within inclusion. When I think about vulnerability and how it plays a role in inclusion, I think oftentimes we tell people to look, take a look in the mirror and when it comes to inclusion, what you’re really doing is you’re just seeing yourself and what I’m working through is this new way of kind of viewing this saying and Dan and I had a really good conversation about this instead of taking a look in the mirror, why don’t you just be a window, right? Give people the opportunity to see you as you really are, give people the opportunity to understand what you’re really thinking, give people the opportunity to give people the opportunity to see what is in your home.

Dar Mayweather (29:58):

Right? When I say home, I mean, in your lived experience, what really makes you who you are. Oftentimes when we’re looking in mirrors, I think that’s, it’s about selfishness. It’s about selfishness. It’s about me. We’re not when we’re being vulnerable. What we’re doing is being of service to others. It’s allowing others to see that we are not perfect, that we’re growing, that it is actually a real journey. I think oftentimes we need to create more spaces for vulnerability so that we can’t actually have the conversations that matter to not only where we’ve been in the organization or the program or on our campus, but where we are actually trying to go. Those stories, that window needs to stay open. It can’t be closed. It can’t be closed off to not just our students who we don’t know that will engage in our work, but also the staff faculty, the administration that need to understand the hardships that we are actually experiencing, that our students are experiencing. That window is the chance to be of service when you’re talking about inclusion.

Dan Faill (31:18):

Well, and, and to that point, Dar not all windows look the same. Mm right? Like there are different windows for different that, that, that serve different functions. Maybe it’s a sliding window. Maybe it’s an open window. Maybe it’s one of those windows in a residence hall that doesn’t open all the way, who knows <laugh> but right. Knowing that your window and my window can be different, but we could see each other in a better capacity. Right. And so, and part of that is, is, is showing you who I am, but then we have to do that by saying, Hey, Dar, I see you’ve got a window. Do you mind mind if we kick it for a little bit? Right. And, and being able to then open up in that capacity to say, here’s where we are. And, and, and again, it’s acknowledging that my lived experience is a lived experience. It is not the only lived experience that’s out there. And I think that’s how we not only practice the understanding more about others, but really seeing our own capacity for service and care in ourself and others.

Casey J. Cornelius (32:18):

You know, I, I think the common thread that is, is coming through both of your messages, and I’m gonna ask you to respond to this real quick, but it seems like both of you are saying this leadership thing can be sort of messy. Mm am. Am I hearing that correct?

Dan Faill (32:33):

Oh yeah. Leadership sucks. We just don’t talk about that part.

Dar Mayweather (32:36):

<Laugh> <laugh>

Casey J. Cornelius (32:38):

But that, I, I think, I think the big takeaway from this conversation though, is as it relates to leadership and inclusion or leadership and failure, that we have to accept that messiness as the first step, is that right?

Dar Mayweather (32:53):

Absolutely. You know, thinking about that analogy of different windows, right? Some windows could look like activism, some windows might look like volunteering. Some windows might look like collective visioning with a group that is underserved, whatever that window is. It’s not gonna be easy. <Laugh>, it’s not, and it’s always worth it. It’s always worth it in the end.

Dan Faill (33:25):

Well, and, and to that point to, to kind of build off. Yes. And the, the, so the concept that I’ve come up with around understanding failure and vulnerability and, and really what this looks like I had, I feel like not much can happen if you don’t feel safe, if you don’t feel psychologically safe and physically safe, you know, as an organization or as a member of set organization, then you’re not even gonna want to give a crap about someone’s window. Right. Because you’re sitting here looking in the mirror the whole time, and that’s what you’re trying to focus on because it’s the, well, gosh, what do I do now? And we have to feel safe in order to want to look at a window or to bring it back in order to want to exercise vulnerability. So like Dar if you and I were to start sharing stuff, and if I share with you something, you know, really deep on my end and you’re like, all right, cool.

Dan Faill (34:17):

And then a week later, I hear you talking about it to someone else that’s not cool. And then I’m going to shut down and potentially not exercise that vulnerability again, which is problematic. So I think knowing that we’ve gotta feel safe and then we can start to open up and then we can really kind of say like, oh wow, what we’re, doing’s not working. And let’s, let’s, let’s try to fail a little bit more. That’s the, the concept that I think as individuals and as organizations that we could really start to tap into is creating the sense of safety. And then what are the questions that we could open up and ask each other, right. Because Dar Casey, like I’m not gonna meet you. And for the very first time, I’d be like, oh my gosh, like, Hey Casey, it’s Dan what’s your biggest fear in life. Right? Like we don’t, <laugh>, we don’t open up in that way. So how do we ease into the more vulnerable conversations so that we can bond and have that collective identity or value or desire to move forward together?

Casey J. Cornelius (35:13):

Well, just like always whenever we host these programs, I always find myself wanting more, like wanting more time, wanting more conversation. And yeah, as a listener, you’re probably wanting more on these topics as well. Again, I invite you to look at both Dar and Dan’s signature content for college, for life.com/dar D R or Dan D a N. And you know, we, we really are thankful for you giving us some of your time today for, for the first of the, can we talk about this podcast series? It’s not gonna be the last of course, so, you know, please please make sure that you like and share and subscribe, but also tell us some of the topics that you would like to see covered. You know, today we talked about the messiness of leadership and how we can get better as it relates to areas around failure, perfectionism inclusion, doing it all the right way. And of course, we could talk about these things for hours and hours and hours, but until next time, so let me let me take a second and thank you, Dan. Thank you Dar for sharing your insights today real quick before we go, Dan Dar, what’s the best way for folks to connect with you? Where can they find you?

Dan Faill (36:26):

I’ll go ahead and go first, Dar so I’m Dan fail on all social media channels. So website is www dot Dan fail F a I L L two LS on that one, cuz I go twice as hard. And also Dan fail on social media. Dar, where are you at?

Dar Mayweather (36:43):

You find me at doing the good work on Instagram, also doing the good work.com Dar Mayweather on LinkedIn and Facebook. I’m engaging in all platforms looking forward to connecting.

Casey J. Cornelius (36:56):

I think what they’re saying is folks, you can find them, please make sure you do. And please let us know if you like this episode and what you wanna see in the future until next time. Thank you so much for joining and we look forward to our next opportunity to chat.

 

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